Ichigo didn't missed Rukia during the 17 months of her absence?

This is a response for grama.

Here's the link to this topic :

http://forums.mangafox.com/threads/246520-IchiHime-Vs.-IchiRuki-Version-3-Read-Post-1/page207

NOTE : I put my response on grama here in my blog,because I don't have much time typing and looking for the chapters and panels,I only have few minutes each day to post a comment,so I can only do this here without repeating everything,every time I logged in.I really liked putting the panels while I am explaining my opinion,so please just bear with me.

ARGUMENT :

Ichiruki : The volume 49 poem was about Rukia. Non IR fans japanese translators and japanese fans themselves said the one referred to was a female, Rukia. "Can I keep up with the speed of the world without you in it?" was about Rukia.

grama : that's interpretation. especially since ichigo in that book said that he doesn't miss rukia outright. there's no saying which one is telling the truth.....the poem or ichigo himself.

A/N :

The time that Ichigo said he doesn't miss Rukia outright,is this,right?

Now,how can we say if he's lying or not?

            His expression says so,right?However,there are still some people who would like to interpret it another way.In that case,let's try to find another proof that Ichigo is lying when he said that.

grama :

don't you think it's kinda cold that she hasn't come back even once?

of course it is not! she isn't the representative of karakura town to begin with, it's normal for her not to come.

i bet you are going to say......ichigo is probably lying to his friend(Keigo) that he actually want her to come to see him.

A/N :

Did you noticed this?

Keigo is asking him about Rukia haven't visited even once,and Ichigo replied...

            Ichigo is giving him reasons why Rukia won't visit the Karakura town.In other words,he is aware of the fact that she won't come and visit the Karakura town,yet still...

            Why on earth is he thinking about exactly the same stuff earlier?He knew the reasons why Rukia won't visit there,but why is he still thinking of her not visiting there,though he knew the reasons why?Isn't that a sign of being in a denial state?He was thinking about it as well,but when Keigo asked him about it,he acted like he wasn't thinking about it at all,because there's no reason for doing so.Now,tell me he's not lying.

grama :

i'm fine with peace till i die. that's right. ..... i just dreamed of a life where i couldn't see them (ghosts......guess what shinigamis are in the category of what normal human being cannot see....where i couldn't see shinigami>>rukia is one of the shinigamis??).

am i now allowed to say that ichigo doesn't really miss rukia ....he just take things as it comes and goes?

A/N :

Actually,isn't this is what he said COMPLETELY?

Let's analyze his statements.

            If you haven't noticed,Ichigo is talking about the "him" BEFORE.He said he never felt superiority because he could see spirits.Why do you think he feels that way?

It was because of this...

             "I never once thought that I could make a living and help someone with it."

             Ichigo at that time,do not see the importance of his ability.What is so special about it?He's just being able to see them.He couldn't see anything useful about it,he doesn't know that one day,that ability of his will be the thing that would make him someone who could protect and help the others.Since he couldn't see the purpose of having that ability...

             "I just longed for a life where I couldn't see them"

             That is what he always wished for ever since before he met Rukia.However,when he met Rukia and he became a shinigami,he had the taste of a life where he can use his ability to protect mountain loads of people (the thing that he never thought would be possible). Unfortunately,after his fight with Aizen,he lost that ability completely,which is his current situation in that chapter.

That's why he said lastly...

            "And I finally got what I've always wanted"

            Ichigo at that moment is reflecting on his previous feelings about having that ability (seeing spirits). His statement is not about the thing that he wanted at that moment.

Besides...            

What is Ichigo's reaction when he was starting to lose that ability?

 Zooming in...

            As you can see,Ichigo shows everyone that he was just fine with it,but look at his expression before he asked them if he could go outside.Is that how someone who really wanted to lose his ability to see spirits should look like?I doubt it,how about you?...

And for this part...

(ghosts......guess what shinigamis are in the category of what normal human being cannot see....where i couldn't see shinigami>>rukia is one of the shinigamis??).

Is this actually true?

Rukia : Don't look so sad.Even if you can no longer see me,I can still you.

Ichigo : What?That doesn't make me happy at all.And I wasn't making a sad face either.

Is this not a sad face?

I highly doubt that Ichigo is not sad,eh?

Also,you (grama) said...
 
also, muddling up with ichigo crying because he lost his power thanks to ginjou with feeling lost without power in the 17 months is not really a smart move….especially since the 17 months of powerlessness was him resigning to the fact that he doesn’t mind being lost his power as long as his friends are save while ginjou robbed him of the power that he worked for his friends(you have orihime flashback….no rukia flashback*victory sign*). 

A/N :

            If it's true that he was just fine without his power during the past 17 months,as long as his friends are safe,why does Chad here is saying that "You've been a sad sight since you lost your powers" No one is in danger during that time.It was only until 17 months 'til Ishida's attack,so...

             Chad also pointed out that Ichigo probably thinks that he was hiding it.In other words,Ichigo is definitely in his denial/pretentious state.

In that case,based from what you said here...

if it is really the intentions of the author not to portray the character as telling the truth, he would validate his point (character not telling the truth) straightaway. it's obvious that the character is not being truthful to his friends especially when the friends point out. 

            Since  Chad pointed out that Ichigo is not fine being powerless,it's clear that he would never wish to lose his powers,that will make him unable to see spirits...

That's why,this...

i'm fine with peace till i die. that's right. ..... i just dreamed of a life where i couldn't see them (ghosts......guess what shinigamis are in the category of what normal human being cannot see....where i couldn't see shinigami>>rukia is one of the shinigamis??). 

             is a clearly misinterpreted part.Because this isn't Ichigo thinking about wanting not to see spirits again.It is Ichigo reflecting on his previous feelings of having the ability to see spirits.

For the last part...

he just take things as it comes and goes?

If Ichigo really is taking things as it comes and goes

             Ichigo himself was surprised with his behavior as well,he must have thought that he have managed to move on without it,it was 'till then that he realized that he still haven't managed to get over with it.Along with this is Chad's conversation with Ichigo,where he said that Ichigo is trying to hide it (the panel that I put above).

Now,for this part...

grama :

but i want to point out something that upset me very much....it's the.....how do i say it...i'm not sure whether it's kubo tite's faults that made me upset or it's the ichiruki fans, i think it's both but personally i think more could be because fans' selective reading and logical comprehension. i find it very 'crazy/weird' whenever the ichiruki fans dismissed what ichigo is saying to himself to be a lie.....especially when ichigo said it aloud in his mind. no seriously, you really think that one could actually lie to himself, say the inobvious thing that he knows he himself cannot be lied? fine, we can allow some deception happened when one say to his friends, he doesn't want to be truthful with others...... but to himself??.....that person is certainly a mental case if he cannot be honest with himself. can you really live up with that....or in another words, would you still want to read on when you know ichigo isn't someone who is truthful to himself, especially when he is voicing his thoughts?

A/N :

This is what Ichigo thought in his mind...to himself...

     

And this...

i'm fine with peace till i die. that's right. ..... i just dreamed of a life where i couldn't see them (ghosts......guess what shinigamis are in the category of what normal human being cannot see....where i couldn't see shinigami>>rukia is one of the shinigamis??). 

            ...I have already explained above,that Ichigo is reflecting his previous feelings regarding his ability to see spirits,so...yeah,he wasn't lying there.Ichigo really didn't liked his ability to see spirits before he met Rukia.Chad confirms it too,that Ichigo is hiding it,so...Ichigo is definitely not happy without his powers.In other words,why would he wish to lose that ability,if the truth is,he really liked having it now?

grama :

 i understand that ichigo would probably not tell out the real thing to rukia as in 'i love you/ i miss you' straight to the face to prevent awkwardness. but behind her back? if he really really miss her? (noticed, i used really, really miss her to note deepness of missing her) he should probably voice it out to the readers.
    
             Like I have shown from the first part of this essay,Ichigo is thinking about Rukia not visiting to the Karakura town even once.However,when Keigo asked him about the same thing,he acted that he have never thought about it,because there's no reason to.Ichigo didn't admit to Keigo that he was thinking about that as well,though...like you (grama) said,Rukia wasn't there,she won't hear him,there's no reason to be shy admitting that he was thinking about it too?The same could be said for Ichigo not telling him that he missed Rukia,even if he does.Rukia's presence is not the issue,it was Ichigo's denial state is the issue.

Done with this subject.

I hope you won't give me this...

grama :

ichigo missed rukia....i never said that he didn't miss her......i just said that ichigo didn't feel lonely and perhaps NEVER REALLY, REALLY, REALLY missed her because he is confident that he's going to meet her.  

A/N :

This is what you said...

that's interpretation. especially since ichigo in that book said that he doesn't miss rukia outright. there's no saying which one is telling the truth.....the poem or ichigo himself.

Then you said...

i never said that ichigo doesn't miss rukia....he said it in the book.  

            When you said Ichigo said it in the book,and that,he said it outright,it sounds like...how can I say it...it sounds like you are saying that it is what the manga is trying to tell us.

Then you bring all this...

Attachment 193425

don't you think it's kinda cold that she hasn't come back even once?
of course it is not! she isn't the representative of karakura town to begin with, it's normal for her not to come.

i bet you are going to say......ichigo is probably lying to his friend(Keigo) that he actually want her to come to see him.

Attachment 193426

i'm fine with peace till i die. that's right. ..... i just dreamed of a life where i couldn't see them (ghosts......guess what shinigamis are in the category of what normal human being cannot see....where i couldn't see shinigami>>rukia is one of the shinigamis??).

am i now allowed to say that ichigo doesn't really miss rukia ....he just take things as it comes and goes?

by the way.....i always wanted to know ichigo could have probably used the word 'maybe' to show that maybe he does feel lonely or not. instead it's a hell no. why is it a bit difficult for him to express how he feels if it is true that he loves rukia? you need to pretend that you don't love her when you actually do? if rukia is around, i understand why he needs to pretend and not say outrightly to her that he missed her. but when she is not around.....does he have to? my only conclusion was perhaps the loneliness was never really felt for him to not say so.

Attachment 193428

even at the beginning, pre-ss arc we have ichigo's mind saying.....i should try and avoid getting close with her.
this is the reason why i don't see it as a feasible pairing.
 
            Judging by how you keep on showing us panels,it's clear that those are the reasons why you think he doesn't missed Rukia.Seriously,try to put yourself in our situation...

Then,later...you started to say something like this...

and no....i didn't say that ichigo doesn't miss her as close friend. i just said that the poem doesn't say of ichigo and rukia, it's more of ichigo and orihime. saying the poem is as if talking about ichigo and orihime does not translate to ichigo not missing rukia. and yes, i did prove in the manga that ichigo in his inner mind did say that he doesn't mind not seeing ghosts (or shinigamis, which that includes rukia). because he didn't at all feel lonely. and not feeling lonely doesn't really translate to not missing her. he got other friends and family that can keep him company. 

             You didn't explain your reason for bringing up those panels.Not only that,instead of saying that he's just not that lonely without her,what you always say is that...it is what he said to himself,so why think that he was lying?Or that,Chad and Orihime didn't mentioned that he really missed Rukia...PROBABLY,BECAUSE HE REALLY DIDN'T MISS RUKIA.Or...why tell a lie,though Rukia wasn't there,there's no reason to be shy.Ichigo is saying it in his inner mind,we are asking him to be truthful...there's a lot more.

            Really,if you are in our situation,will you understand that the person is just trying to explain,that Ichigo is just not that lonely,and not that he/she was saying that he didn't missed Rukia?

Well,in any case,since you said...

ichigo missed rukia....i never said that he didn't miss her......i just said that ichigo didn't feel lonely and perhaps NEVER REALLY, REALLY, REALLY missed her because he is confident that he's going to meet her.  

            This means that the argument about Ichigo not missing Rukia is already done,since we all agree that he did missed her.The only thing that is up for a debate is...whether Ichigo does REALLY,REALLY,REALLY MISSED RUKIA.