Twisting and adding meaning to my arguments

            I can clearly understand that everyone has the right to stick with their own opinions,but there's someone that just entertained me to no end while I'm at the Ichiruki vs Ichihime DEBATE thread in MF.I couldn't help but sigh,and shake my head multiple times,while reading this person's responses.I suppose it'll be better to write my opinions and complains to that person here on my own Blog,to avoid rule problems,so...

I'm just so amused,that I couldn't help pointing this all out...so,here goes...

            The thing that I really,really,really don't like is,when someone is accusing me of doing/saying something that I did not...

So,I'll start with this part.

grama :

i wasn't even intending to debate. i came in as a stand that the poem can be interpreted a few ways, not necessary to have only one sole interpretation, voicing out a few examples. kawaiirukia tried to engaged me on the poem interpretations and i said i wasn't interested to argue on the interpretations. he then tried to engage me again with orihime's poem about the rain and ichigo's poem about changing the world. still i am not interested to talk about it, dismissing whatever he tried to say aside. he still engaged me. but what i was hurt about him pointing out a name stating that i shouldn't put inside it when i didn't put inside it. if you were me, would you not think that he wants to just debate but not really carefully checked it himself. how would you especially feel if someone were not careful enough in writing his arguements when you carefully reread everything to make sure that the opponents don't find fault in you? i on my side would feel insulted.

A/N :

This is grama's post...

orihime, gin and matsumoto show actions that exclusively belonged to only people who are in love. ichigo and rukia don't. we know there is something going on between gin and matsumoto through the flashbacks....gin leaving matsumoto alone on the bed(if that is not romantic, i don't know what is). and you are right these are circumstances.

And this is my comment to his/her post.

Do you see your post?There's Gin and Matsumoto,but Orihime is "alone" Ichigo wasn't there.Why?because Ichigo never showed those kind of actions towards Orihime.

And this is his/her response to me.

grama :

what's wrong with my post? 

kawairukia :

I mean,you didn't put Ichigo there,because he haven't shown those kinds of behavior towards Orihime.One sided.

grama :

i never mentioned ichigo as people who are in love? *confused*  

kawairukia :

I didn't mean anything that you said that Ichigo is in love.In fact,what I said id,you didn't put him because he doesn't show any kind of behavior towards Orihime that can be seen as love.

Then,the best part of this,is his/her response to my effort of  trying to make myself clear with my argument.

grama :

i personally feel that you just posting for the sake of posting......picking up a fight with me, even when the mole hill isn't really there. so that you can prove that ichiruki is the real deal?
i am sorry. really i am. for not putting in ichigo's name together with orihime, ichimaru and gin as people who are in love. please don't be antagonistic about this small matter.

but since you intend to 'fight' with me over the ichiruki/ichihime thing.....i guess i have no other choice but to bring in the manga. so troublesome to the forum and me.

            He/she didn't responded to my post,right?Instead of answering my argument,and give a counter argument to my post,or just ignore me if he/she couldn't say anything,or just don't want to say anything,he/she just attacked me,and accusing me of trying to pick a fight with him/her.

Then spidergoth tried to explain things to him/her too...

spidergoth :

Grama I think that you're taking the posts here a bit the wrong way. You do have your complete right to you're opinion gladly be an Ichihime fan and I don't think anyone here is trying to change your opinion.

            And that is when he/she said his/her complains about me,and some other members of that thread.I did understand that some of the responses are somehow getting pretty ugly,but they all apologized to him/her for doing so...

for example :

QueenOfJuiceBoxes :

Ah, Grama, I'm sorry if I sounded rude. I was sounding rude (going to edit my post). Sorry about that, really. Just remember that this is a debate thread, so while we are not personally attacking you, we are going to reply to your posts with how we feel. 

grama never respond to this,so I don't know if he/she actually read it.

ADVluv4life :

P.S.

I sound like a jerk, I'm sorry. I'm just very serious. 

And this is grama's wonderful response...

there are many ways to be serious without sounding like a jerk. but i think you are a jerk inside to be an outside jerk. for instance.....

            Everyone is trying to be nice as much as they could,despite his/her consistent sarcastic attitude while responding to us.sigh...

And this is his/her complaints about me...

but what i was hurt about him pointing out a name stating that i shouldn't put inside it when i didn't put inside it. if you were me, would you not think that he wants to just debate but not really carefully checked it himself. how would you especially feel if someone were not careful enough in writing his arguements when you carefully reread everything to make sure that the opponents don't find fault in you? i on my side would feel insulted.

            I admit that the first part somehow sounds rude,but I don't mean anything like that,so...my apologies...But the point is...did I say that he/she SHOULDN'T put Ichigo's name?I did not,right?Because,he/she didn't put his name.I only pointed out that he/she didn't put Ichigo along with Orihime,Gin,and Rangiku,because he/she knew that Ichigo doesn't show those kind of actions that according to him/her were exclusively belonged to a person who is in love.

            That thread is about the pairings,a pair is about TWO people,and not only one.In able to become a couple,there should be a mutual feelings between the TWO.That is why I pointed out that Ichigo was not there,because he doesn't show those kind of behavior towards Orihime.He/she says that Ichigo and Rukia don't show that kind of actions,I simply want to point out that Orihime alone won't assure Ichihime's possibility  either.Just because Orihime was in love with Ichigo,it won't be a hint of Ichihime possibility,as long as Ichigo is not showing any hint of reciprocating her feelings.Unrequited Love exists,and there are a lot of cases that a character confesses their feelings to the protagonist,and was rejected.This is the reason why I can't see a One Sided Love as a HALF DONE thingy,especially,when the other one is not showing hints of reciprocation.

            Before his/her complaints,I did tried to make it clear to him/her.Therefore,I'm confused as to why is he/she is still saying that I did said something that I did not.He/she is accusing me of not really carefully checking everything,though I honestly felt that he/she was actually the one who's doing something like that (after reading his/her complaints).

And for this part...

grama :

kawaiirukia tried to engaged me on the poem interpretations and i said i wasn't interested to argue on the interpretations. he then tried to engage me again with orihime's poem about the rain and ichigo's poem about changing the world. still i am not interested to talk about it, dismissing whatever he tried to say aside. he still engaged me.

This is his/her post that I responded...

personally i studied the poem and i can find it relating to many different people in the book.....especially if the poem if one line or two. for instance the orihime poem.....while it's true that orihime may have said it, but i can say that it was during the rain that ichigo and rukia's heart was connected. 

And this is my comment to his/her post...

Yeah,Ichigo and Rukia's heart was connected during that time.However,Orihime at that time just heard the story about Ichigo's Mom's death.Orihime wanted to be able to empathize with Ichigo,but she couldn't,because she doesn't understand Ichigo's pain completely,since she doesn't know the whole story.Then Orihime thinks about being able to understand him just a little.That poem is talking about,being able to understand completely,as if they are just one person (connected). While Orihime wishes to understand Ichigo's pain completely,Rukia on the other hand,is the one that was given that kind of opportunity.Orihime can only understand the pain of losing someone that is dear to them,but she can never imagine the pain of being the cause of their deaths,which is the thing that happened to both Ichigo and Rukia.

And this is his/her response to me...

and your point is?? rukia is suitable for ichigo while orihime is not? okay, that's your interpretation. i shall leave it as that.

What is it that he/she said again?

grama :

kawaiirukia tried to engaged me on the poem interpretations and i said i wasn't interested to argue on the interpretations.

            Where on earth did he/she said that?Yeah,he/she said that " okay, that's your interpretation. i shall leave it as that. " It would have been better if this is the only thing that he/she have said,the argument will automatically be closed.Unfortunately...he/she tries to add a meaning to my post,which is "and your point is?? rukia is suitable for ichigo while orihime is not?"

            Since I never meant anything like that,I tried to explain to him/her that I don't mean anything like that... I thought if he/she really get my point,or he/she is just confused with my post.

Here's my response to his/her (sarcasm).

My point is...it was definitely Orihime to Ichigo.You said that it can be about Ichigo and Rukia,since their hearts are connected at that time.I am saying that it was Orihime to Ichigo,because the poem is talking about,wanting to connect with another person.I don't want to repeat everything,so if you could reread my post?

Then he/she replied me with...

neither do i want to repeat again when i say a poem can be interpreted as many as possible, not just one way and i'm not saying everyone is wrong. do you even read my post properly?

            He/she said it,"poem can be interpreted as many as possible, not just one way" He/she posted his/her opinion/interpretation about the poem,and I posted my interpretation about it as well.In any case,I only tried to explain what I mean there,because he/she said...

and your point is?? rukia is suitable for ichigo while orihime is not? okay, that's your interpretation. i shall leave it as that.  

            I know he/she is being sarcastic,but it also made me feel like he/she actually thinks like that about my post.Or maybe,he/she thinks that it is one of the reason why I support Ichiruki (though I am not actually a shipper). And I don't like it when someone is adding a meaning to my words.

The same thing happened with the rest of our conversations...

grama :

the same applies to the 'no one else can change my world' poem. in that poem i can find two people who can be connected to that poem also. aizen, who thinks that with his own hand he can change the world, no one else.....or ichigo who feels that if he doesn't win the fight with byakuya, it will not change anything. 

kawairukia :

Aizen is talking about the one who would change the world,which is "himself". When Ichigo thinks that if he didn't defeat Byakuya,nothing would change.Ichigo is talking about Rukia's future.He needed to defeat Byakuya,to change Rukia's destiny.At that part of the story,Ichigo said there,that Rukia is the one that changes his destiny/world,so he's the one who's world have been changed,not Aizen,and not Rukia either.Those chapters are dedicated to Ichigo,saving the one who changed his world,so...no,it can't be Aizen,and can't be because Ichigo wants to defeat Byakuya,it was simply Ichigo--->Rukia.

grama :

ok, that's your point.....ichigo--->rukia because rukia changed ichigo's world. that sounds so like obligation love....she changed my world so i must love her.

have you ever heard the two train of thoughts?? Only God can changed my world /or/ Only I can changed my world?

that's why the poem sounded like this.....that's right, no one else change my world. you need the above thoughts for it to complete the poem.

carry on.....

kawairukia :

I never said anything that it will obligate Ichigo to love Rukia.I only mean to say that it was Ichigo--->Rukia.Never did Isay about it being romantic either,so I am confused.BTW,which volume was it again?

            I felt confused with my response from my previous post either,because I am so sleepy during those days.To make a better interpretation,I want to make sure if I am talking about the right subject.He/she said that the poem says "Yes,no one can change my world"

but the only one that I know is this one...

            It says "The one that changed his world" So I responded based from this one,I want to know if I am talking about the right subject,that's why I asked which volume was it.I want to search for the japanese version,to see if there's a mistranslation.

Unfortunately,he/she just responded me with....

okay.....Ichigo--->Rukia as in hate? despise? pity? goodwill? love?

yeah right you never say it about being romantic either. 

 try and keep up with what you say in the past. or else this debate will turn into, 'i just want to win you over, i keep talking everything until you give up.'

            I was merely talking about the poem,then suddenly,he/she is already talking about obligation love,not responding properly with my post again,sigh.

All his/her responses are just like that

kawairukia :

I never said that he will never realize Orihime's importance to him.I said,we never see some realization in his thoughts about Orihime's importance to him during and after her rescue,which is the best time to see that kind of moments. 

            I talked about Ichigo having some realization after Rukia's rescue,while there is none for Orihime,and he/she didn't respond to me properly,again...

grama :

you can say your opinions until the cows come home or the moon turn blue it wouldn't make any difference. i just don't want to be like you. it wouldn't help the pairing be a canon one.

I can clearly see what he/she meant when he/she said this...

kawaiirukia tried to engaged me on the poem interpretations and i said i wasn't interested to argue on the interpretations. he then tried to engage me again with orihime's poem about the rain and ichigo's poem about changing the world. still i am not interested to talk about it, dismissing whatever he tried to say aside. he still engaged me.

but i'm sure there is a unwritten clause somewhere that says all opinions whether right or wrong are to be respected. a person pursuing this matter again and again encroaches it.

i just can't stand repeating the same thing again and again which is you are free to interprete yourself as anyway you want and you don't need my help just as i don't need your help.

i don't believe in winning you over, converting you from where you come from....i just want to see what people's take about certain matters. intepretating poems especially ichigo's 49 poem is not one of them. discussing about the duality views that ichiruki have on shoujo is an interesting topic. and how a love pairing shipping is determined individuality--your ideal love should be. these are topics that i like to discuss and perhaps debate. ---grama

            I'm pretty sure,he/she means that I (and the other members) am trying to push my opinion on him/her,that's why I (and the other members) kept on repeating my words.Although in reality,it was because he/she isn't responding to me properly,and is adding meaning to my words,which is the thing that I was trying to explain,and not my opinion about the topic.I am definitely not trying to win him/her over,I simply wanted to see his/her opinions about everything.I am absolutely fine with him/her giving his/her opinion about my argument,but not adding a meaning to it.I was hoping that he/she could give me a nice argument in favor of Ichihime,but unfortunately,he/she couldn't and just end up attacking me.

            I'm not bothered with his sarcasm,in fact,it really makes me laugh.Why?Because,instead of countering my argument,he/she is just attacking me,makes me think that he/she couldn't think of something to counter my argument.Countering an argument in a thread like that doesn't mean that we are fighting.We are just cross discussing every topics related.It is meant to see how far you can give proofs and counter an arguments,without bashing the others.Respond with your argument,present your proofs that supports your assumptions,that is the purpose of a debate,isn't it?

           He/she posted a comment on that thread,which is a DEBATE thread.If he/she didn't intend to debate,then why post a comment?

For example...

grama :

i don't believe in winning you over, converting you from where you come from....i just want to see what people's take about certain matters. intepretating poems especially ichigo's 49 poem is not one of them. 

And this is what he/she said earlier...

i wasn't even intending to debate. i came in as a stand that the poem can be interpreted a few ways, not necessary to have only one sole interpretation, voicing out a few examples.

             If he/she just didn't want to talk about it,then why did he/she post a comment about the poem?He/she thinks it can be interpreted in many ways,but the others have a different opinion about it.Posting a comment in a debate thread,you should expect that there would be people will  agree or disagree with you,it's a common logic.If you don't want to debate,then don't post anything.But if you want to discuss about something,then post the topic that you wanted to talk about. 

grama :

discussing about the duality views that ichiruki have on shoujo is an interesting topic. and how a love pairing shipping is determined individuality--your ideal love should be. these are topics that i like to discuss and perhaps debate.

            That is a debate thread,it is not a forum that is meant for talking about your ideal love.That thread is meant for showing proofs and reasons why you like or thinks that the pairing you support does have a possibility to prevail.Hence the title is "Ichiruki VS Ichihime".