BLEACH Volume 49 poem :Ichiruki vs Ichihime_Part 1

            "I wonder if I can keep up with the speed of the world without you in it"

            I honestly thought that it was undoubtedly about Ichigo referring to Rukia after the infamous "kimi" issue.However,some people really want to see it a different way,refusing to see it as an Ichigo--->Rukia poem.Therefore,after proving that Ichigo was referring to a female,so it can't be Zangetsu,here comes another argument saying that it could be Ichigo--->Orihime poem.

Here's the argument presented...

that's interpretation. especially since ichigo in that book said that he doesn't miss rukia outright. there's no saying which one is telling the truth.....the poem or ichigo himself. i can interprete it by saying that since the you is refer to a female it could be orihime, especially since in that book we have orihime spending time with ichigo  in his room and orihime sliding down the pipe and making gag jokes. the poem was talking whether/can or cannot he keep up with the speed of the world without her in it. if it's rukia the poem was talking about, it would have been an affirmative statement that he cannot keep up with the world that has no rukia, since rukia is really not around....he doesn't need to wonder. it's a wondering question poem which only indicates that the person at that time is still by his side and he wonders whether he can still hang on if she doesn't stay with him anymore. hence i think the poem talks about orihime.


i could be wrong.--->ichihime (I assumed)

Visit here to see the complete debate details about this.

Therefore,let me copy paste this part...

how shall i deal with this.....let's reason this out logically(which of course, people could say it is logical fallacy) and you tell me whether what my stand make sense or not. i am not even going to tell the 'oh so great orihime is to ichigo' that's why the poem is talking about orihime bullshits. we will only go by all the facts that are laid out by us.


there are two train of thoughts when people talk about authorial intention.
a) kubo tite being obvious.....he would slap to the readers' face what he want them all to know.
b) kubo tite being subtle..... he enjoys when people get different meanings from them(not necessary from poems), he provoke people to think and analyze when reading his work. ie he did say there is not necessary one meaning to the story.


agreed?


let's then look at the ichiruki's analyze explaination about 49 poem. -- the obvious one - kubo tite slapped on us and see what they say.... 

- Translators precise that the you isn't the same as the you for Zangetsu, but is more female like.- Poems comes right after the IchiRuki separation and Ichigo lost his powers. The word "without you in it" means that someone is absent and 2 entities are: Zangetsu and Rukia. Though it's not Zangetsu, Rukia's also female contrary to haters beliefs *le gasp*

the you is a female and you not being in the world. rukia is the only female not in the world.


is that all??


now look at my analyze explainations about 49 poem -- and you tell me whether it falls on the simple obvious one or the in depth analytical one.

point 1
僕はついてゆけるだろうか 君のいない世界のスピードに
as for i(male), able to keep up, can ?(darouka) with the world that you(female) have not in


"Can I really keep up with the speed of the world...where you're not in here?"


I wonder if I can keep up with the speed of the world without you.


here's the thing. there is only two answer to the question that use the word 'can'(darouka).


can/cannot i go to toilet?
yes you can/no you can't.


can/cannot i eat this cake?
yes you can/no you can't.


in japanese, kana(かな) is one way of saying 'i wonder' or express uncertainty over the future/what is he supposed to do now which would have more than two answers usually
明日雪が降るかな。.....i wonder whether it will snow tomorrow or not--yes/no.
何を着ていこうかな。....i wonder what to wear?---whatever thing you want.
これいくらかな。....i wonder how much is this?--well the price is.


if you can't see where i'm getting at is this....'kana' gives impression that the speaker is wondering of something that is to come on the way(foreseened) or is in present. speaker knows it is there/on the way but still wonders what to do with it.

to put it shortly......if in the context of rukia not being in the world for 17 months, and he is still wondering IN HIS MIND whether he can or cannot 'kana' would have been aptly used.


'darouka' the can/cannot is obviously for something that is not to be foreseen and unexpected. it's like::


i'm not sure whether i can or cannot keep up with the speed of the world that doesn't have you in it. i can keep up with the speed of the world when you are in it.....but when (OR IF) you are not in it, i'm not sure whether i can'


which leads to another question....can 'kana' be used instead for orihime? ichigo expects orihime to be taken out of this world from him? no. he doesn't think orihime will leave him anytime soon, but if she did......i leave this to you guys to answer.


point 2:
the poem is a monologue of his mind. he should know what he is facing, how he is facing ESPECIALLY when he is experiencing it now. AND HE SHOULD BE HONEST. UNLESS it's something that he did not experience, he would wonder what is like to be. rukia's leaving is something that he experienced and he's still not sure to say that he cannot keep up with the speed of the world where she's not in it? this is not the first time rukia is separated from him.


What if Kubo were to intend to meant it as Orihime; Orihime's leaving is not something that he truly experienced? hence he is not sure whether he can do it if it really happened?


point 3
speed of the world......is it romantic word to be used? depending on how it is used. two type of speed.....fast and slow.


the world is fast paced, i have so many things to think about and settled. i don't have time to breath. there you came and asked me to sit and laugh, you make me forgot my problems for a while as you make me eat those throwaway breads....i breath a little, my mind cleared a little.


or


the world is moving slow snail paced. i have nothing to do but wait for the life to pass slowly uninterestingly. you spiced up my life. you come with weird jokes and funny gags. i nearly jumped and got heartattack when you do something dangerous.


which world speed do you think ichigo's world is in book 49 that he must have Rukia, and how can she help him deal with it.......romantically?
make it a fast world so that ichigo wouldn't feel lethargic....always feeling adventurous fighting hollows and demons.....is that even romantic??
make it a slow world so that ichigo....i don't know.....i can't imagined rukia trying to make ichigo stop everything, forget what his burden are.....ichigo, you go and rest while i fight the hollows for  you......is that even romantic??

what now then is your stand? do you still think kubo tite is the type of person who would do the obvious one, slapping the glaring conclusion to everyone? or perhaps does the opposite.....use it as a red herring while putting in other hints and there for people to catch the true meaning when combining all the clues?


i don't want to hear your stand because i can't say you are right or wrong; i am not kubo tite.


neither you are kubo tite. you cannot say that kubo tite will never resort to red herrings or hide the real meanings behind so deep. nor can you say my interpretation of the poem is wrong.


Just because everyone else is saying it, doesn't mean everyone is right. especially when the reasonings are simple enough to be parroted.

My take on this...


kubo tite being subtle..... he enjoys when people get different meanings from them(not necessary from poems), he provoke people to think and analyze when reading his work. ie he did say there is not necessary one meaning to the story.


Actually,what KT said COMPLETELY is...

Kubo: "There are bits in the manga where I draw scene that wouldn’t get the reader’s attention too much. I always put all my effort into my manga but how each audience read my manga are different. So it’s really important to make sure they would end up all having a similar idea of my story, but then again, it’s really up to them how they read the manga, but then there are scenes where I want the audience to be touched, so it’s really hard."

           Don't be confused,KT never said that there is not necessary ONE meaning to the story.What he said actually is,"It's really important to make sure they (the readers) would end up all having a "SIMILAR" idea of my story"

           He did say that there are bits in the manga that he drew in a way that won't get the readers attention too much (hidden messages,but not actually hidden,it's just not that easy to notice).He's putting all his effort in his manga,why?because he wants the readers to get the message that he was trying to convey in the story,but unfortunately,each readers/audience read his manga differently.

That's why,when he said...

"It's really important to make sure they (the readers) would end up all having a SIMILAR idea of my story"

           He means that there is ONE "specific" meaning to his story,hence he was saying that the readers should end up having a SIMILAR idea.

And when he said...

but then again, it’s really up to them how they read the manga

           It's because he couldn't control how people use to interpret things,and he should not tell it by words,he would only tell his story in his manga.

That's why he said...

but then there are scenes where I want the audience to be touched, so it’s really hard

           If the readers interpreted the scenes in a wrong way,then they wouldn't be touched or feel the emotion that KT wants to pass onto them.

hence,what he means there is...

           It's hard to make everyone interpret his story CORRECTLY/similarly.There would always be some people who would/might interpret it in different way.It's just normal,since every individual have their own way of interpreting things around them.

           All in all,KT is saying that there is definitely ONE specific meaning in everything he wrote in the story.No matter how many ways people can interpret each scenes,there is only ONE Kubo sensei's intention.Hence,there would only be ONE correct interpretation among the multiple arguments/assumptions that are made by everyone of us.

Cleared?

           I will skip the part where there is an elaboration for the meaning of the words "I wonder" and "If I can" since I knew that everyone already knows the meaning and the use of those words,eh?

Now,I'll start with the "it could be Orihime"

Did you noticed this?

i'm not sure whether i can or cannot keep up with the speed of the world that doesn't have you in it. i can keep up with the speed of the world when you are in it.....but when (OR IF) you are not in it, i'm not sure whether i can'

            It says things clearly...Ichigo should be able to keep up with the speed of the world as long as she (Orihime) was there,right?It was only when she's gone that he wouldn't know if he can.If this is true,then why am I seeing Ichigo being bored with his life?Chad saying that he's been a sad sight,Keigo pointing out that his grades are dropping,Isshin pointing out that he finally become able to say something about SS (shinigamis),but ends up avoiding the subject...those things shows that Ichigo was still unable to move on,even he himself noticed it...

           Ichigo should be having a higher grades since he have plenty of times for studying,unlike when he was still a shinigami who have some sleepless nights because of his extra responsibilities,but what we have instead is,Keigo pointing out that his grades are dropping.He should be happy because he finally got what he wanted (have a life that he couldn't see spirits),but Chad commented that he's been a sad sight since he lost his powers.

           Those things are all pointing to one conclusion...Ichigo was unable to keep up with the speed of the world,even though Orihime is there with him.

Another thing,I just couldn't help but point this out...

it could be orihime, especially since in that book we have orihime spending time with ichigo in his room and orihime sliding down the pipe and making gag jokes 

the world is fast paced, i have so many things to think about and settled. i don't have time to breath. there you came and asked me to sit and laugh, you make me forgot my problems for a while as you make me eat those throwaway breads....i breath a little, my mind cleared a little.

            I've never seen Ichigo laughed (a genuine one) since he lost his powers...maybe,I just happened to skip that page?In any case,I didn't see Ichigo forgetting his problems for a while,or having a clear mind (though little) when he was eating bread and drinking tea with Orihime...O.o

Instead,what I see is this...

            If you haven't noticed,when Ichigo repeated the word "intuition" it's the part where he noticed that there's something going on,something's wrong.In other words,this adds up to the pressure of being powerless,hence his nakamas couldn't say everything to him,because he doesn't have his powers anymore,and made them worried about him.Ichigo didn't pushed the subject,because he knew that Orihime won't tell him anyway,because he was powerless.And to make things even shorter,this conversation only adds up to his depression.

And about this one...

the world is moving slow snail paced. i have nothing to do but wait for the life to pass slowly uninterestingly. you spiced up my life. you come with weird jokes and funny gags. i nearly jumped and got heartattack when you do something dangerous.

I've never seen Ichigo being entertained with her jokes?

            One more thing...if eating bread and drinking tea,making some gags makes Ichigo wonder about being able to keep up with the speed of the world,or spicing things up for him,why would he be grateful towards Orihime alone?Isn't Karin and Yuzu do this with him as well?(minus the gag).If we are going to talk about gags,Keigo is there too.In other words,Orihime is not the only one who does those things for him.

            One thing that this person needs to realize.This is not the matter of Ichigo being grateful towards Orihime,especially,when she is not the only person that Ichigo could be grateful to...

            Everyone knows that Ichigo is not happy without his powers.If he is depressed because he doesn't have his powers anymore,then the only thing that can make him happy,is to have that powers back.That is what Chad was trying to do there.Don't you think Ichigo would be grateful about this?However,the poem was only referring to a female,so...

             Judging by the things that happened in the manga,can we really say that Ichigo is referring to Orihime in that poem?Orihime who is not the only one in the Human World that Ichigo could be grateful to.She's not the only one among the people who are with Ichigo in the Human World who's doing their best to cheer him up,so it shouldn't be her alone whom Ichigo should be thinking of being able to keep up with the speed of the world,if he's talking about someone who is currently there with him.For the last part,Ichigo is still struggling to cope up with the speed of the world,even though Orihime is there with him,so... 

Now.let's see the "it was Rukia"

point 1 :


if you can't see where i'm getting at is this....'kana' gives impression that the speaker is wondering of something that is to come on the way(foreseened) or is in present. speaker knows it is there/on the way but still wonders what to do with it.

A/N :

            Actually,the speaker is wondering if that time (him being able to keep up with the speed of the world) would come/happen in the future.The speaker is not sure if it will ever come on his way (being able to keep up with the speed of the world),that's why he was wondering.


darouka' the can/cannot is obviously for something that is not to be foreseen and unexpected. it's like::


i'm not sure whether i can or cannot keep up with the speed of the world that doesn't have you in it. i can keep up with the speed of the world when you are in it.....but when (OR IF) you are not in it, i'm not sure whether i can'

A/N :

           To make things clear,Ichigo never  mentioned the "if I can't".Ichigo is only wondering "if he CAN".Please don't add a word to a sentence,especially,if you wanted to analyze it's meaning.Adding a word to a sentence will affect its entire meaning.

point 2 :

the poem is a monologue of his mind. he should know what he is facing

             The thing that Ichigo was currently facing at that moment,is living a life without Rukia.

how he is facing ESPECIALLY when he is experiencing it now. AND HE SHOULD BE HONEST.

             Ichigo is facing it with inability to keep up with the speed of the world.Read here and here

UNLESS it's something that he did not experience, he would wonder what is like to be. 

             The thing that he haven't experienced yet since their separation,is being able to move on/get over with it even though it was 17 months already,that's why,Ichigo is now (in that moment) wondering if he CAN.

rukia's leaving is something that he experienced and he's still not sure to say that he cannot keep up with the speed of the world where she's not in it?

            Again,Ichigo is not wondering if he CAN'T,why?Because he knows it already,he was unable to keep up with the speed of the world,because she's not there with him.The only thing that Ichigo is wondering about is if he CAN.Make no mistake on that part,don't be confused,wondering if he "can't" is way different from wondering if he "CAN "

this is not the first time rukia is separated from him.

            This is what this person said in the debate thread...

ichigo wondered why did he had to save rukia when she was originally not belonged to the real world until orihime showed him that rukia did belonged here and saving her life takes up the utmost top priority. 

            Reread the "Blank" chapter please,Ichigo never said "why bother saving Rukia?" Adding words again,sigh.When Ichigo said those words,he was talking about being affected by the fact that everyone forgets her.She was originally from the SS,so why is he bothered that everyone forgets her,though in reality,she doesn't really belong there.Read here for more elaboration on that chapter.

            In any case,there's still some changes there.Ichiruki's separation in chapter "Bleach my Soul" shows a growing fondness of Ichigo to Rukia compared to the one that took place at the "Blank" chapter.From the following chapters next to "Blank",Ichigo and Rukia's relationship/bond is growing stronger,and they became closer to each other,that's why,the separation is more painful compared to the previous one.


Part 2