Ichiruki vs Ichihime : Do they really have an equal possibility? (REWRITE)

               Hello everyone,I just wanted to inform you that I am currently rewriting everything as of now.I am not satisfied with how I wrote some of my essays (blame it to me for being an OCD),since I am very sleepy and tired when I wrote all of them.I apologize for any inconvenience it may cause ^m^,I hope you understand ^.^'>.

anyways,here's the link to my revised essays  : Ichiruki vs Ichihime : Do they really have an equal possibility?

BLEACH Volume 49 : The word "kimi"

               I've seen some people who are speculating that Ichigo's poem is referring to Zangetsu,since the word "kimi" can be use for a neutral gender.

here's an explanation from someone about the word "kimi"


Yes it can be used for that as well. Kimi in itself isn't used solely for females and combined with the use of boku it almost sounds as if its a child talking. Kimi can be used for social equals or someone who is inferior in rank but very familar with. Nonetheless, kimi isn't really a 'special' gendered pronoun when it comes to Japanese as its used for informal conversations mostly, so why any shipper is getting worked up by this is quite sad really.


Besides, I have shown this to a couple of Japanese speakers and they confirm it seems rather gender-neutral to claim anything. 


No you are misunderstanding kimi, as it is not used strictly from boy to girl (both genders can use it) and is used in informal conversations and people of higher rank too lower. It can be used for someone younger or older or in a sarcastic manner. Furthermore, the fact 'boku' was used makes it harder to claim that this was a convo that was strictly male to female as boku is typically childlike and used by young boys. Boku and Kimi are not gendered Japanese pronouns so you are wrong in your assumptions.

A/N :

                Since I am not someone who will just believe in the words that was being told to me,or seen from one place (not that I care about the majority's opinion,because I definitely don't just follow the majority).I made my own research about this.

                Here's what some people (not talking about BLEACH) that LIVES in Japan,not just SPEAKING Japanese language,says to someone who is looking for an advice,as to which word is to use in a conversation.They are not talking about BLEACH,nor the volume 49 poem either.


Second person pronouns:


君 kimi (2nd.P) originally meant "lord." 


僕 boku means "servant"; but while usually an informal 1stP, 僕 boku can also be a Second Person used to address small boys.


Based from this explanation,that means that this...



Yes it can be used for that as well. Kimi in itself isn't used solely for females and combined with the use of boku it almost sounds as if its a child talking

...and this.

Furthermore, the fact 'boku' was used makes it harder to claim that this was a convo that was strictly male to female as boku is typically childlike and used by young boys. 


                 ...is definitely not the case for the volume 49 poem,since the speaker (Ichigo) is referring to himself as "boku" which is the 1stP,and it can only be interpreted as being addressed to a "boy/kid" if it was referring to the 2ndP.If someone uses it to refer to himself,which is the 1stP,it was simply an informal way of addressing themselves.



And by the way, the reason why some people use "kimi" to younger people is because "kimi" could also mean "kid" but that’s a different kanji.


Two Kimi’s :
きみ = kid (as you can see, that’s written in Hiragana)
君 = you


In writing, you have to use the kanji kimi instead of writing it in Hiragana.. or else it might look like you mean "kid" instead of "you." I don’t know if there’s a kanji for kimi that means kid.. so if you write using Kimi, use kanji. 


There are other meanings of Kimi but are written in different Kanji, of course. So I really tell you to use the kanji if you want to use Kimi that means you..


                Since KT used the kanji 君 = you,that means that it isn't referring to a kid.In other words,the speaker in volume 49 poem is not referring to a kid either.



KIMI


Personally, one of my favourite pronouns. kimi has a kindly air to it, one that can be friendly and personal, caring and parental, or even romantic. It is very familiar. It is never used by a younger/lower-ranking person to address an older/higher-ranking person. Only those “superior” (or equal) in some way can use kimi. However, it’s definitely not hostile.


This word uses the same kanji as the suffix –kun and has somewhat the same feeling.


Commonly heard:


- parental sort of figure towards children/youths


- superiors (including military officers) towards subordinates


- young person towards other young people (roughly the same age or younger)


Often used in conjunction with boku,though also used with all other pronouns.

Which means that this...

No you are misunderstanding kimi, as it is not used strictly from boy to girl (both genders can use it) and is used in informal conversations and people of higher rank too lower. It can be used for someone younger or older or in a sarcastic manner. 

                 ...is true.However,as it says,it isn't only used by someone who is in higher rank to a lower.It can also be used as something friendly and personal,caring in a parental manner,or even used in a ROMANTIC way.It is not purely about addressing an underling (higher to lower rank),or a younger/same age as the speaker.It would only sound RUDE when being used to address someone who is older or in a higher rank than the speaker.

Also,did you know that...

Most Japanese classes focus on formal, "proper" language and tend to discourage colloquialisms. This is for good reason. The "polite" forms in Japanese are necessary in learning grammar and word order, especially for beginners where more plain forms of the language can be confusing.

                This is the reason why,if you asked someone about the word "kimi",they will recommend you to use it with caution,or better not use it at all,especially when you are just a beginner.

Also...

Japanese, unlike English, allows all pronouns to be omitted from sentences when they can be inferred from context. In spite of this — or perhaps because of this — Japanese has far more pronouns than the average language. There are more than three dozen Japanese words that can be translated as "I/me"* and even more that can be translated as "you". Each of them makes a different statement about the "speaker's gender", age, social status, and relationship with the addressee(s). To capture a little of the flavor, English translations sometimes use "this (category of person)" — this little girl, this humble peasant, this Bad Ass.


Writers, naturally, take advantage of this. The "wrong" pronoun can be a moment for comedy (see Different for Girls); the specific choice can say a lot about the character speaking. And it's easy to avoid revealing characters' names, for whatever reason.


Note that, even more so than in most forms of media, the language used in anime is heavily stylized and quite different from the way actual Japanese people speak in real life. Take everything you hear in anime with a grain of salt — non-native speakers who learned their Japanese from anime are easy to spot.

                Notice the part where it says that "writers naturally,take advantage of this",because it can be useful in writing a story,to avoid revealing characters names,can have the idea about their age status,relationship,etc.

That's why...

No!!! You can use it also to males or children. But, Kimi may address only a female in the words of songs/dramas/mangas.

And here's another explanation from someone

The language used in j-dramas is also not representative of how Japanese people speak in real life, scripted to fit the narrative and character relationships only, so I wouldn't use it as a tool for learning to speak Japanese. 


But if you're listening/watching in Japanese, knowing the difference can be helpful.


Here is my explanation (all "you"s): (A/N : I only put the word"kimi" since it was the topic)


"kimi" can be used for familiars/nonfamiliars but I would avoid using it. Also, "kimi" is used in songs, etc. kind in a romantic way.

and...

Kimi
君　A somewhat informal but still polite second person pronoun used mostly by men when addressing their equals or younger men and women. Usually the pronoun used between boyfriends and girlfriends. Can be used as a honorific as well, pronounced kun.


Kimi
The Japanese word for "you" that is generally used in an endearing manner. Be careful not to use it when reffering to a person who is either your equal or above you, but kimi would be more appropriate for a lover or a child. For most situations use the word "anata."        

After reading all those explanations,this...

Japanese as its used for informal conversations mostly, so why any shipper is getting worked up by this is quite sad really.

                ...person doesn't seem to research things thoroughly about the use of "kimi" in Japanese,especially,when we are talking about MANGA.Besides,using informal words in a conversation means that the person is close to the one that he/she is talking/referring with.In a sense,being worked up by the fact that "kimi" is being used for informal conversations,and is used for someone who is in a higher rank to lower,or is someone who is younger,and don't acknowledge the possibility,or maybe,just didn't know that it can also be used in a romantic way,is quite sad as well.

BLEACH Volume 49 poem :Ichiruki vs Ichihime_Part 2

point 3

My take on this...


speed of the world......is it romantic word to be used? depending on how it is used. two type of speed.....fast and slow.


the world is fast paced, i have so many things to think about and settled. i don't have time to breath. there you came and asked me to sit and laugh, you make me forgot my problems for a while as you make me eat those throwaway breads....i breath a little, my mind cleared a little.


or


the world is moving slow snail paced. i have nothing to do but wait for the life to pass slowly uninterestingly. you spiced up my life. you come with weird jokes and funny gags. i nearly jumped and got heartattack when you do something dangerous.

               Given that this person didn't asked if this is romantic (in a sarcastic way?),I assumed that he/she thinks that this is romantic,or was it just me?

Anyways...

which world speed do you think ichigo's world is in book 49 that he must have Rukia, and how can she help him deal with it.......romantically?
make it a fast world so that ichigo wouldn't feel lethargic....always feeling adventurous fighting hollows and demons.....is that even romantic??
make it a slow world so that ichigo....i don't know.....i can't imagined rukia trying to make ichigo stop everything, forget what his burden are.....ichigo, you go and rest while i fight the hollows for you......is that even romantic??

                First of all,I have explained on the first part of this essay,that Ichigo is referring to someone who is not there with him anymore,so this assumptions serves no purpose at all.Saying that the "kimi" that is referred to a woman,is helping him to keep up with the speed of the world,would only mean that Ichigo is not struggling to cope up with it,because the certain "kimi" (female),is there to help him.Unfortunately,Ichigo is struggling to keep up with the speed of the world,so,arguing that the "kimi" that Ichigo is referring to someone who is with him,is obviously wrong.

This should go like this...

This is what Rukia have done for Ichigo,before she was gone in his life...

the world is fast paced, i have so many things to think about and settled. i don't have time to breath. there you came and asked me to sit and laugh, you make me forgot my problems for a while as you make me eat those throwaway breads....i breath a little, my mind cleared a little.

Rukia's version....

                 Rukia is telling him to take time and enjoy himself,and Ichigo was so surprised to hear that Rukia is also concerned about his well being,hence he was speechless.

                Ichigo is so depressed over his Mom's death (since he was 9),and because of that,he stopped smiling,he couldn't bear the guilt that he was carrying,and Rukia is the one who made him feel at ease during that time.

Even Ichigo confirmed it here...

               
                And that conversation with Rukia is the thing that also helped him to be patient and understanding with his Dad's secret.

Another time is here...

And Orihime confirmed this...

                She said that Rukia brought Ichigo back to normal,in short his burdens are lessen after he talked to Rukia.

Rukia is helping him to forget his problems?

               Ichigo wants to protect,and Rukia gave her powers to him...problem solved.She did not help him forget his problem,she helped him SOLVE his problem.

Ichigo even said that here...

               Ichigo is really grateful towards Rukia,don't you think?And him being a shinigam,is the thing that gave him resolve with his depression over his Mom's death....

And,to sum it all up,here's what Ichigo said....

                Ichigo is thanking Rukia "IN HIS INNER THOUGHTS" for stopping the rain.The rain that represents Ichigo's LONELINESS.

                Come to think of it,everything that Rukia does for Ichigo was always being highlighted in the story,it is even confirmed in the manga as well (how Ichigo feels about everything she do for him).On the other hand,Orihime's eating bread,drinking tea,and sliding on a pipe,as well as making gags,wasn't confirmed to be anything that helped Ichigo in a sense....hmmm....(rubs my chin slowly).I'd rather use the times that Orihime did something for Ichigo before "The Lost Agent Arc".But then again,Ichigo is still unable to keep up with the speed of the world,even though she was there with Ichigo,so...

And for the last part...

                Seriously,this whole argument implies that Ichigo would be grateful towards Orihime for eating bread and drinking tea?Sliding on a pipe and making gags?And those things could make him wonder if he can keep up with the speed of the world without her,but is not wondering if he can keep up with the speed of the world that is currently no Rukia?Rukia who does all those things (I post above) for his sake?Are those are just nothing compared to him eating bread and drinking tea with Orihime?Really?From the start,one should be able to notice that there's something wrong there...is it something REALISTIC to anyone of you?I just want to know.

Now,for this...

the world is moving slow snail paced. i have nothing to do but wait for the life to pass slowly uninterestingly. you spiced up my life. you come with weird jokes and funny gags. i nearly jumped and got heartattack when you do something dangerous.

Perhaps I'll just write everything about this "spicing things up"  

                When Ichigo became a shinigami he have gained new goals.like protecting mountain loads of people.He met Ishida.He became closer (became closer,not become close,don't be confused) to Orihime,Chad,Ishida,(since the rescue mission for Rukia).He met Urahara and his gang,as well as Yoruichi.He met lots of strong shinigamis,he gained an even more friends (shinigami's,vizaards,hollow *Nel and Co.*).He found his purpose in life (the one who protects,hence his name finally achieved its meaning).

Or perhaps,something like this?

                 Ichigo almost have a heart attack,he doesn't want to be discovered that there is a woman living in his closet.I can still give a lot of examples,but that would crowd this essay,so,I'd rather not to put them all here (laughs)

Now,for this part....

how do you think rukia can help ichigo to counter the world's speed?

                Yeah,she cannot counter the world speed for Ichigo because she was not there with him anymore,that's why,he was UNABLE to keep up with the speed  of the world.

And what's with this question?

wouldn't it be easier for kubo tite to put, 'how can i keep up with the world without you in it?' instead of 'how can i keep up with the world's speed that you are not in it?'?

               No matter how I tried to analyze those two sentences,it only gives me one answer.The essence of the statement was still the same,it is about "how to keep up with the speed of the world,*if she's not there*"

               I don't know if this person haven't heard those lines before.I've heard it so many times,mostly when the person is already separated from someone who is so important to them.Although,there are also some times that the person is still there with them,and it happens after doing something for them,that they thought no one could ever do,or won't ever do for them.However,like I have already explained,Ichigo's behavior doesn't matched with the possibility that it could be Orihime,because,saying that he was able to keep up with the speed of the world when she's there with him,and it is only when she's gone that he wouldn't know if he could,I suppose we wouldn't see the Ichigo who was unable to keep up with the speed of the world,since Orihime is still with him,right?

Anyways....

About this part..

speed of the world......is it romantic word to be used? depending on how it is used. two type of speed.....fast and slow.

                After explaining Orihime's deeds for Ichigo could make him able to keep up with the speed of the world,and not asking if it's romantic,I honestly think that this person thinks it is romantic,since he/she only asked if it's romantic when he/she is talking about Rukia's.

                Now,if I am going to base this "romatic" or "not romantic" in this person's own perspective of something ROMANTIC,does that mean that Ichigo and Rukia are indeed romantic?


Part 1

BLEACH Romance : Different worlds argument

               I honestly thought that this "different world" argument should be closed after Isshin's revelation of being a shinigami,which means that Humans and Shinigamis who are from different world does have a possibility of living together.There are some several shinigamis who are living in the Human World,Urahara and his gang,as well as the Vizaards are an example of this..

Yet,some people kept on saying something like this...

you are so certain that ichigo will not fall for the girl for the girl who willingly stand by his side all the time....the girl who is a beautiful babe with big boobs, who is gentle and kind, sacrifice for her friends, always worry about him, who wibbles and cries for him in relief, support him, bring him delicious throways breads? that ichigo's heart is always with his ray of light....who cannot spend time with him because she is a lieutenant?


okay. if that's realistically enough for you.

And this...

that ichigo would exchange the caring supportive girl who a lot people say is a good deal with someone who isn't often with him because of duty and family.

My take on this...

that ichigo's heart is always with his ray of light....who cannot spend time with him because she is a lieutenant?


okay. if that's realistically enough for you.

               First of all,they are not REAL,they are just FICTIONAL CHARACTERS,there's a lot of UNREALISTIC things that happens in that particular manga,so,being realistic in terms of distance (different worlds),duty,or whatever,is not the problem there.Anything is possible to happen in terms of those aspects of the story.We are talking about possible romance,so,we only have to focus on the REALISTIC relationship development.

               In FICTION,entities from different worlds can live together,love each other,hate each other,etc.,there are lots of mangas,movies,tv dramas,etc.,that have this kind of possibilities,

for example...

Inuyasha,Ah My Goddess!,The Vision of Escaflowne,Fushigi Yuugi,The Bride of Water God,Hell Teacher Nube,Absolute Boyfriend (Night is an android,though not from different world),and there's a lot more.

                Those are the reasons why I cannot understand this.Why is it not applicable for BLEACH,though it was applicable in other stories?Not only that,there are also some examples of this possibilities in BLEACH manga itself (Isshin/Masaki,Byakuya *noble*/Hisana *commoner*,Ginjou saying that Ichigo is not the only one who is a half SHINIGAMI and half HUMAN),so...

and the most common reason that some people usually brought out is this...

that ichigo would exchange the caring supportive girl who a lot people say is a good deal with someone who isn't often with him because of duty and family.


you are so certain that ichigo will not fall for the girl for the girl who willingly stand by his side all the time....the girl who is a beautiful babe with big boobs, who is gentle and kind, sacrifice for her friends, always worry about


him, who wibbles and cries for him in relief, support him, bring him delicious throways breads? that ichigo's heart is always with his ray of light....who cannot spend time with him because she is a lieutenant?


okay. if that's realistically enough for you.

               Duty?I assume that Isshin could probably have a higher rank which have an even more responsibilities compared to Rukia,yet,he still managed to marry Masaki,and lived with her in the Human World.Although,there are some speculations saying that Isshin might have used his FGT,and then lived in the Human World after he lost his shinigami powers,met Masaki and married her,then have three wonderful kids.However,I couldn't help but remind everyone that,it happened because that was KT's intention.KT wanted Ichigo to be a son of a shinigami and a human,so,he created a situation where this plans will work.In other words,if KT wants Ichigo and Rukia to be together,then he'll create a situation where it is possible to happen.

                However,I believe that whether Ichigo and Rukia are not together,or cannot be together,is not actually the issue.The issue actually is,are they IN LOVE with each other?Will they fall IN LOVE with each other?

that's what I am going to explain here...

                That was Prince Cain from "Reimei no Arcana" he wants to hate Caesar,because he thought that the king loves him (Caesar) more than him (Cain),because Caesar is black haired,while he is blond,which is different from everyone in their kingdom.He also thought that Caesar's mother stole his Mom's status as the Queen.Even so,he couldn't help but not to feel the hate that he wants to feel towards Caesar.

The same could be said with Rukia here...

                Rukia believes that she shouldn't have those emotions,shinigamis are not supposed to have those emotions because it will hinder their performance as a shinigami.However,despite her reluctance to have them,she couldn't help but have those emotions no matter how hard she tried not to.

Even Orihime here...

                Orihime doesn't want to feel jealous,she knew that she should be happy because Ichigo is back to normal,yet still,she couldn't help but feel jealous.

                My point is,people feel emotions,there are some situations that no matter how hard you try not to feel that way,you still do.

also,when you say something like this....

but spending time together, discovering new thing about each others' hearts and actions will make one love the other back. in the beginning, orihime liked ichigo first because of his scowl. now.......


between rukia and orihime, who spends more time with ichigo?

                Aren't all those things happened to Ichigo and Rukia as well?Not to mention,it was even emphasized in the story more than Ichigo and Orihime's relationship development.Even so,why is it possible for Ichigo to fall in love with Orihime,but it is not possible for him to fall in love with Rukia?Because she couldn't spend more time with him compared to Orihime?Ichigo should not let himself fall in love with Rukia,since she couldn't be with him more often?

                Let me give this one example to you (though there are a lot more out there,but I believe that one is enough to explain my point)....

                The one who's talking was Caesar's Mother.She is wondering why back then,and even until that time (Cain's mother was already dead) the King (her husband) seems to cease her and THEIR child's (Caesar) existence,whenever he's with Cain's mother.Cain's mother is already DEAD,yet still,the King doesn't stop loving her.The one that he kept on thinking and,the one that he only loved was Cain's mother,even though she was already gone (dead),and he was there with his new Queen and son.The King could no longer be with Cain's mother,yet still,he continued loving her.The King is there with his new Queen (Caesar's mother),yet still,he couldn't love her,though he's spending time with her unlike with Cain's mother.

                 Is that cannot be applicable to Ichigo and Orihime (the King and Caesar's mother)?and Ichigo and Rukia (the King and Cain's mother)?

another thing...

you are so certain that ichigo will not fall for the girl for the girl who willingly stand by his side all the time....

               Rukia is more than willing to stand by his side,she was actually fighting beside Ichigo.She even go against the SS's order just to accompany Ichigo in HM,and there's a lot of times that she did so,right?But this is enough to show that she did.

the girl who is a beautiful babe with big boobs

Rukia is canonically beautiful in the manga as well...(minus big boobs *laughs*)

who is gentle and kind

Rukia is gentle and kind as well...

sacrifice for her friends

Just a few examples of Rukia sacrificing herself for a nakama (Ichigo mostly).

always worry about him, who wibbles and cries for him in relief

                Rukia has cried because she was so worried about Ichigo,she thanked him for being able to survive,she was relieved to see him safe.I hope some people won't bring the "she's just feeling guilty" that's lame.Rukia is a naturally kind hearted woman.

that's why Ichigo thought...

                Ichigo sees her as different from everyone,her kindness is something that he have never seen to anyone.I mean,he sees her kindness in different level compared to everyone,that's why she is weird
in his POV.

note : They are talking about Rukia feeling guilty for everything that happened to Ichigo.Instead of blaming Ichigo about her impending death because of helping him,she was instead worrying about his safety,and Ichigo sees her kindness as something unusual,that's why Ganju and him thought that she is weird.

support him

Rukia supports Ichigo as well

Now,just because Rukia...


who cannot spend time with him because she is a lieutenant?okay. if that's realistically enough for you.

               This person said that those interactions can make the person love the other,yet still,even though all those things happened to Ichigo and Rukia (in a more meaningful ways) it's not possible for them to fall in love with each other,just because they can't be with each other often?


                Just like what I have explained above,there are times that even though a person don't want to feel such emotion/feelings towards someone,be it hate,love,jealousy,or whatever,they still couldn't help but have those feelings.Let's say that Ichigo thought that he shouldn't love Rukia,because she couldn't spend time with him because of her duty,does that reassure him that he won't fall in love with her (Rukia)?Nope,right?

                Even in REALITY,there are people who happened to love someone that they shouldn't and don't want to fall in love with.There are people who loved his/her mother/father in a romantic way.There are people who happened to love their brother/sister in a romantic way.There are people who fall in love with their enemy.There are people who fall in love with someone who's too busy at work and doesn't have time for them...ex...doctors,police,seaman,businessman (who's always at work),etc.Did all those reasons stop them from falling in love with those kind of people?Nope,it didn't.

                To make things short,Rukia couldn't be with Ichigo most of the time (because she's busy with her duties,and from a different world),doesn't mean that they won't fall in love with each other.Ichigo can fall in love with Rukia,even if he couldn't be with her.Them being able to be together is beyond our power,it's only up to KT's decisions.

BLEACH Volume 49 poem :Ichiruki vs Ichihime_Part 1

            "I wonder if I can keep up with the speed of the world without you in it"

            I honestly thought that it was undoubtedly about Ichigo referring to Rukia after the infamous "kimi" issue.However,some people really want to see it a different way,refusing to see it as an Ichigo--->Rukia poem.Therefore,after proving that Ichigo was referring to a female,so it can't be Zangetsu,here comes another argument saying that it could be Ichigo--->Orihime poem.

Here's the argument presented...

that's interpretation. especially since ichigo in that book said that he doesn't miss rukia outright. there's no saying which one is telling the truth.....the poem or ichigo himself. i can interprete it by saying that since the you is refer to a female it could be orihime, especially since in that book we have orihime spending time with ichigo  in his room and orihime sliding down the pipe and making gag jokes. the poem was talking whether/can or cannot he keep up with the speed of the world without her in it. if it's rukia the poem was talking about, it would have been an affirmative statement that he cannot keep up with the world that has no rukia, since rukia is really not around....he doesn't need to wonder. it's a wondering question poem which only indicates that the person at that time is still by his side and he wonders whether he can still hang on if she doesn't stay with him anymore. hence i think the poem talks about orihime.


i could be wrong.--->ichihime (I assumed)

Visit here to see the complete debate details about this.

Therefore,let me copy paste this part...

how shall i deal with this.....let's reason this out logically(which of course, people could say it is logical fallacy) and you tell me whether what my stand make sense or not. i am not even going to tell the 'oh so great orihime is to ichigo' that's why the poem is talking about orihime bullshits. we will only go by all the facts that are laid out by us.


there are two train of thoughts when people talk about authorial intention.
a) kubo tite being obvious.....he would slap to the readers' face what he want them all to know.
b) kubo tite being subtle..... he enjoys when people get different meanings from them(not necessary from poems), he provoke people to think and analyze when reading his work. ie he did say there is not necessary one meaning to the story.


agreed?


let's then look at the ichiruki's analyze explaination about 49 poem. -- the obvious one - kubo tite slapped on us and see what they say.... 

- Translators precise that the you isn't the same as the you for Zangetsu, but is more female like.- Poems comes right after the IchiRuki separation and Ichigo lost his powers. The word "without you in it" means that someone is absent and 2 entities are: Zangetsu and Rukia. Though it's not Zangetsu, Rukia's also female contrary to haters beliefs *le gasp*

the you is a female and you not being in the world. rukia is the only female not in the world.


is that all??


now look at my analyze explainations about 49 poem -- and you tell me whether it falls on the simple obvious one or the in depth analytical one.

point 1
僕はついてゆけるだろうか 君のいない世界のスピードに
as for i(male), able to keep up, can ?(darouka) with the world that you(female) have not in


"Can I really keep up with the speed of the world...where you're not in here?"


I wonder if I can keep up with the speed of the world without you.


here's the thing. there is only two answer to the question that use the word 'can'(darouka).


can/cannot i go to toilet?
yes you can/no you can't.


can/cannot i eat this cake?
yes you can/no you can't.


in japanese, kana(かな) is one way of saying 'i wonder' or express uncertainty over the future/what is he supposed to do now which would have more than two answers usually
明日雪が降るかな。.....i wonder whether it will snow tomorrow or not--yes/no.
何を着ていこうかな。....i wonder what to wear?---whatever thing you want.
これいくらかな。....i wonder how much is this?--well the price is.


if you can't see where i'm getting at is this....'kana' gives impression that the speaker is wondering of something that is to come on the way(foreseened) or is in present. speaker knows it is there/on the way but still wonders what to do with it.

to put it shortly......if in the context of rukia not being in the world for 17 months, and he is still wondering IN HIS MIND whether he can or cannot 'kana' would have been aptly used.


'darouka' the can/cannot is obviously for something that is not to be foreseen and unexpected. it's like::


i'm not sure whether i can or cannot keep up with the speed of the world that doesn't have you in it. i can keep up with the speed of the world when you are in it.....but when (OR IF) you are not in it, i'm not sure whether i can'


which leads to another question....can 'kana' be used instead for orihime? ichigo expects orihime to be taken out of this world from him? no. he doesn't think orihime will leave him anytime soon, but if she did......i leave this to you guys to answer.


point 2:
the poem is a monologue of his mind. he should know what he is facing, how he is facing ESPECIALLY when he is experiencing it now. AND HE SHOULD BE HONEST. UNLESS it's something that he did not experience, he would wonder what is like to be. rukia's leaving is something that he experienced and he's still not sure to say that he cannot keep up with the speed of the world where she's not in it? this is not the first time rukia is separated from him.


What if Kubo were to intend to meant it as Orihime; Orihime's leaving is not something that he truly experienced? hence he is not sure whether he can do it if it really happened?


point 3
speed of the world......is it romantic word to be used? depending on how it is used. two type of speed.....fast and slow.


the world is fast paced, i have so many things to think about and settled. i don't have time to breath. there you came and asked me to sit and laugh, you make me forgot my problems for a while as you make me eat those throwaway breads....i breath a little, my mind cleared a little.


or


the world is moving slow snail paced. i have nothing to do but wait for the life to pass slowly uninterestingly. you spiced up my life. you come with weird jokes and funny gags. i nearly jumped and got heartattack when you do something dangerous.


which world speed do you think ichigo's world is in book 49 that he must have Rukia, and how can she help him deal with it.......romantically?
make it a fast world so that ichigo wouldn't feel lethargic....always feeling adventurous fighting hollows and demons.....is that even romantic??
make it a slow world so that ichigo....i don't know.....i can't imagined rukia trying to make ichigo stop everything, forget what his burden are.....ichigo, you go and rest while i fight the hollows for  you......is that even romantic??

what now then is your stand? do you still think kubo tite is the type of person who would do the obvious one, slapping the glaring conclusion to everyone? or perhaps does the opposite.....use it as a red herring while putting in other hints and there for people to catch the true meaning when combining all the clues?


i don't want to hear your stand because i can't say you are right or wrong; i am not kubo tite.


neither you are kubo tite. you cannot say that kubo tite will never resort to red herrings or hide the real meanings behind so deep. nor can you say my interpretation of the poem is wrong.


Just because everyone else is saying it, doesn't mean everyone is right. especially when the reasonings are simple enough to be parroted.

My take on this...


kubo tite being subtle..... he enjoys when people get different meanings from them(not necessary from poems), he provoke people to think and analyze when reading his work. ie he did say there is not necessary one meaning to the story.


Actually,what KT said COMPLETELY is...

Kubo: "There are bits in the manga where I draw scene that wouldn’t get the reader’s attention too much. I always put all my effort into my manga but how each audience read my manga are different. So it’s really important to make sure they would end up all having a similar idea of my story, but then again, it’s really up to them how they read the manga, but then there are scenes where I want the audience to be touched, so it’s really hard."

           Don't be confused,KT never said that there is not necessary ONE meaning to the story.What he said actually is,"It's really important to make sure they (the readers) would end up all having a "SIMILAR" idea of my story"

           He did say that there are bits in the manga that he drew in a way that won't get the readers attention too much (hidden messages,but not actually hidden,it's just not that easy to notice).He's putting all his effort in his manga,why?because he wants the readers to get the message that he was trying to convey in the story,but unfortunately,each readers/audience read his manga differently.

That's why,when he said...

"It's really important to make sure they (the readers) would end up all having a SIMILAR idea of my story"

           He means that there is ONE "specific" meaning to his story,hence he was saying that the readers should end up having a SIMILAR idea.

And when he said...

but then again, it’s really up to them how they read the manga

           It's because he couldn't control how people use to interpret things,and he should not tell it by words,he would only tell his story in his manga.

That's why he said...

but then there are scenes where I want the audience to be touched, so it’s really hard

           If the readers interpreted the scenes in a wrong way,then they wouldn't be touched or feel the emotion that KT wants to pass onto them.

hence,what he means there is...

           It's hard to make everyone interpret his story CORRECTLY/similarly.There would always be some people who would/might interpret it in different way.It's just normal,since every individual have their own way of interpreting things around them.

           All in all,KT is saying that there is definitely ONE specific meaning in everything he wrote in the story.No matter how many ways people can interpret each scenes,there is only ONE Kubo sensei's intention.Hence,there would only be ONE correct interpretation among the multiple arguments/assumptions that are made by everyone of us.

Cleared?

           I will skip the part where there is an elaboration for the meaning of the words "I wonder" and "If I can" since I knew that everyone already knows the meaning and the use of those words,eh?

Now,I'll start with the "it could be Orihime"

Did you noticed this?

i'm not sure whether i can or cannot keep up with the speed of the world that doesn't have you in it. i can keep up with the speed of the world when you are in it.....but when (OR IF) you are not in it, i'm not sure whether i can'

            It says things clearly...Ichigo should be able to keep up with the speed of the world as long as she (Orihime) was there,right?It was only when she's gone that he wouldn't know if he can.If this is true,then why am I seeing Ichigo being bored with his life?Chad saying that he's been a sad sight,Keigo pointing out that his grades are dropping,Isshin pointing out that he finally become able to say something about SS (shinigamis),but ends up avoiding the subject...those things shows that Ichigo was still unable to move on,even he himself noticed it...

           Ichigo should be having a higher grades since he have plenty of times for studying,unlike when he was still a shinigami who have some sleepless nights because of his extra responsibilities,but what we have instead is,Keigo pointing out that his grades are dropping.He should be happy because he finally got what he wanted (have a life that he couldn't see spirits),but Chad commented that he's been a sad sight since he lost his powers.

           Those things are all pointing to one conclusion...Ichigo was unable to keep up with the speed of the world,even though Orihime is there with him.

Another thing,I just couldn't help but point this out...

it could be orihime, especially since in that book we have orihime spending time with ichigo in his room and orihime sliding down the pipe and making gag jokes 

the world is fast paced, i have so many things to think about and settled. i don't have time to breath. there you came and asked me to sit and laugh, you make me forgot my problems for a while as you make me eat those throwaway breads....i breath a little, my mind cleared a little.

            I've never seen Ichigo laughed (a genuine one) since he lost his powers...maybe,I just happened to skip that page?In any case,I didn't see Ichigo forgetting his problems for a while,or having a clear mind (though little) when he was eating bread and drinking tea with Orihime...O.o

Instead,what I see is this...

            If you haven't noticed,when Ichigo repeated the word "intuition" it's the part where he noticed that there's something going on,something's wrong.In other words,this adds up to the pressure of being powerless,hence his nakamas couldn't say everything to him,because he doesn't have his powers anymore,and made them worried about him.Ichigo didn't pushed the subject,because he knew that Orihime won't tell him anyway,because he was powerless.And to make things even shorter,this conversation only adds up to his depression.

And about this one...

the world is moving slow snail paced. i have nothing to do but wait for the life to pass slowly uninterestingly. you spiced up my life. you come with weird jokes and funny gags. i nearly jumped and got heartattack when you do something dangerous.

I've never seen Ichigo being entertained with her jokes?

            One more thing...if eating bread and drinking tea,making some gags makes Ichigo wonder about being able to keep up with the speed of the world,or spicing things up for him,why would he be grateful towards Orihime alone?Isn't Karin and Yuzu do this with him as well?(minus the gag).If we are going to talk about gags,Keigo is there too.In other words,Orihime is not the only one who does those things for him.

            One thing that this person needs to realize.This is not the matter of Ichigo being grateful towards Orihime,especially,when she is not the only person that Ichigo could be grateful to...

            Everyone knows that Ichigo is not happy without his powers.If he is depressed because he doesn't have his powers anymore,then the only thing that can make him happy,is to have that powers back.That is what Chad was trying to do there.Don't you think Ichigo would be grateful about this?However,the poem was only referring to a female,so...

             Judging by the things that happened in the manga,can we really say that Ichigo is referring to Orihime in that poem?Orihime who is not the only one in the Human World that Ichigo could be grateful to.She's not the only one among the people who are with Ichigo in the Human World who's doing their best to cheer him up,so it shouldn't be her alone whom Ichigo should be thinking of being able to keep up with the speed of the world,if he's talking about someone who is currently there with him.For the last part,Ichigo is still struggling to cope up with the speed of the world,even though Orihime is there with him,so... 

Now.let's see the "it was Rukia"

point 1 :


if you can't see where i'm getting at is this....'kana' gives impression that the speaker is wondering of something that is to come on the way(foreseened) or is in present. speaker knows it is there/on the way but still wonders what to do with it.

A/N :

            Actually,the speaker is wondering if that time (him being able to keep up with the speed of the world) would come/happen in the future.The speaker is not sure if it will ever come on his way (being able to keep up with the speed of the world),that's why he was wondering.


darouka' the can/cannot is obviously for something that is not to be foreseen and unexpected. it's like::


i'm not sure whether i can or cannot keep up with the speed of the world that doesn't have you in it. i can keep up with the speed of the world when you are in it.....but when (OR IF) you are not in it, i'm not sure whether i can'

A/N :

           To make things clear,Ichigo never  mentioned the "if I can't".Ichigo is only wondering "if he CAN".Please don't add a word to a sentence,especially,if you wanted to analyze it's meaning.Adding a word to a sentence will affect its entire meaning.

point 2 :

the poem is a monologue of his mind. he should know what he is facing

             The thing that Ichigo was currently facing at that moment,is living a life without Rukia.

how he is facing ESPECIALLY when he is experiencing it now. AND HE SHOULD BE HONEST.

             Ichigo is facing it with inability to keep up with the speed of the world.Read here and here

UNLESS it's something that he did not experience, he would wonder what is like to be. 

             The thing that he haven't experienced yet since their separation,is being able to move on/get over with it even though it was 17 months already,that's why,Ichigo is now (in that moment) wondering if he CAN.

rukia's leaving is something that he experienced and he's still not sure to say that he cannot keep up with the speed of the world where she's not in it?

            Again,Ichigo is not wondering if he CAN'T,why?Because he knows it already,he was unable to keep up with the speed of the world,because she's not there with him.The only thing that Ichigo is wondering about is if he CAN.Make no mistake on that part,don't be confused,wondering if he "can't" is way different from wondering if he "CAN "

this is not the first time rukia is separated from him.

            This is what this person said in the debate thread...

ichigo wondered why did he had to save rukia when she was originally not belonged to the real world until orihime showed him that rukia did belonged here and saving her life takes up the utmost top priority. 

            Reread the "Blank" chapter please,Ichigo never said "why bother saving Rukia?" Adding words again,sigh.When Ichigo said those words,he was talking about being affected by the fact that everyone forgets her.She was originally from the SS,so why is he bothered that everyone forgets her,though in reality,she doesn't really belong there.Read here for more elaboration on that chapter.

            In any case,there's still some changes there.Ichiruki's separation in chapter "Bleach my Soul" shows a growing fondness of Ichigo to Rukia compared to the one that took place at the "Blank" chapter.From the following chapters next to "Blank",Ichigo and Rukia's relationship/bond is growing stronger,and they became closer to each other,that's why,the separation is more painful compared to the previous one.


Part 2

How much did Ichigo missed Rukia?

            How can we figure out how much Ichigo missed Rukia?I didn't really expect that this would even have an argument,really,so...

Let's check how was he after 17 months of Rukia's absence...

I'll start with his conversation with Keigo.

            Keigo was asking Ichigo about his plans for the future,and Ichigo asked him if he's talking about college,career path,or what ever?If you haven't noticed,Keigo noticed the "whatever" part,which indicates that he was about to say something more.Keigo asked him what other choices are there,but Ichigo just answered that it was still too early to think about that.Although,I am surmising that Keigo knows what was supposed to be the "whatever" thing that Ichigo was about to say (become a shinigami).

            Ichigo is clearly trying to avoid the subject about his shinigami life.Then,Keigo still tried to provoke him to speak...

            Keigo commented that Ichigo's grades are dropping since a year and a half ago (it was from the time that he loses his power). Yet still,Ichigo defended himself for being at least on the top of the middle.

Then,Keigo brings up Rukia on the topic...

This time,Ichigo reacted and look at him...

            Ichigo asked him why did he brought her up to the topic (which is about his plans for the future,and his dropping grades).

             Keigo asked him how does he feel about Rukia not even showing up at least once in a while,doesn't he think it's kinda cold for her not to visit?

Ichigo just gave him reasons why she can't visit there...

            As you can see,Ichigo is fully aware of the reasons why Rukia won't visit the Karakura town (or them?), however,isn't he thinking about the same thing here?..

            Since Ichigo knew the reasons why she couldn't visit,why does Ichigo was still thinking about her,not visiting there even once?In any case,this is an obvious behavior of trying to avoid the subject again.He was thinking about it (Rukia not visiting even once), yet still,when Keigo asked him about exactly the same thing,Ichigo just acted like he never thinks anything about it,because there's no reason to.Ichigo didn't admit to Keigo that he was thinking about the same thing.

Then,Keigo asked him this...

And Ichigo responded with...

           For some obvious reasons,it's truly amusing that some people believes in what he said here.It really makes me wonder if they honestly believe in their own interpretation to Ichigo's response here.Please read here and see how much someone tried to refute that Ichigo missed Rukia.

Now,let's move on to this part...

Ichigo told his Dad that he was having weird dreams...

which is,this one...

Then,Isshin asked him this...

Ichigo just responded to him with...

            Another case of trying to avoid the subject,isn't it obvious?How come that he'll forgot about it,though it just happened just a few seconds or a minute ago?

Now.for this part...

            Chad commented that Ichigo is been a sad sight since he lost his power,from there we can figure out how much he's been depressed since then.

However,this is the argument now...

chad said that ichigo missed his powers....chad had never said he knew ichigo missed rukia---ichihime

            How can we figure out if Ichigo is just missing his shinigami powers and not Rukia?Does KT never made some hints to show if Rukia's absence in his life doesn't hurt him?Is it true that he is not that lonely without her?

            I'll elaborate this issue for all of you...(though of course,this is just my own interpretation to the story).
However,at least take consideration to what makes me think that way ^.^'> then,decide if I am not making any sense.

            As I have shown above,Ichigo is so adamant to avoid the topic about his shinigami life/power.This kind of behavior shows that the character is hurting when he was being forced to think about it.This is just the same with his behavior towards his Mom's death,he doesn't want to talk about it,because it hurts him.However,I understand that some people may not accept the comparison between Ichigo's Mom's death,and Rukia's absence in his life,because they thought they aren't the same,and are two different situation.Therefore,let me remind you that the only difference there is the way he was being separated from them.Masaki was killed by a  hollow when she tried to protect Ichigo,and Ichigo is blaming himself for everything that happened.On the other hand,his separation from Rukia is a different situation.With Rukia's departure,they are both in good terms,she was safe unlike his Mom.Rukia was still alive,it's just that,he won't have the ability to see her anymore.Aside from all that reasons,there's still ONE exactly the same there,and it was "their absence in his life"

And this...

ichigo and rukia has a very great bond. the conviction that they have a great bond. he is confident that his relationship with rukia remained the same from day 1 till the end of days and being separated long will not make the bond weaker. ichigo knows rukia has friends and responsibilities....and he's not going to demand that she must take some time off and visit him. he knows rukia's alive and he's going to meet rukia one day....either she come when she is free or he dies and they meet up in soul society. ichigo being lonely and ichigo missing rukia just sets the idea that ichigo is like clingy keigo.....thinking that rukia must be a horrid girl who doesn't visit her and if he's not in her life, he's going to be forgotten and put aside.

didn't you all say that ichigo and rukia has a bond that surpasses the silly, silly things?

if rukia really dies and there is no way to meet up with her.....then there's a chance that he will miss her and lonely....because the bond is separated.---ichihime

            This arguments makes me wonder if this person actually believes in his/her own reasoning.Just because the person that became so important to you is still alive,though they weren't around,you wouldn't miss them?As far as I know,the closer/important the person is to you,the more you miss them when they were not there beside you,dead or alive,am I wrong?

            As for Ichigo being sure to see Rukia again...the only possibility there,is when he died and go to SS,just like what he told to Isshin about his death,here...

             Come to think of it...Isshin even told Ichigo that he was finally able to say it (talking about shinigamis). Judging by Isshin's comments,it's proven that Ichigo really is not talking about that subject since then (just like how he's not talking about his Mom's death). Now,the only thing that we need to find out is...what hurts him when they are talking about shinigamis/power.

Take a closer look at this...

            Chad asked him to remember the times when he felt PRIDE as a shinigami (the subject that he keeps on trying to avoid), and because the situation is requiring him to do so,Ichigo did what Chad asked him to do.

Ichigo think of all the moments that made him feel proud of being a shinigami...

            Did you noticed something?Ichigo didn't have any trouble of thinking about his life as a shinigami,he was able to remember/think of the times that made him proud of being a shinigami,except ONE moment...

It was this ONE (the only ONE)

            Don't you think this was supposed to be Rukia?Isn't this the time that he went to the SS to save a certain woman?Don't you think it's weird that Ichigo's image was shown instead of Rukia?

            There's only one thing I could think of...Ichigo was still being so adamant of avoiding to think about Rukia.Even during that crucial moment,he was still refusing to think about her.Read my explanation about each panels here

            Some people are implying that KT just didn't want to put Rukia along with the others,and just wanted to make her "stand out" among the rest.However,don't you think it's kinda lame to do something like that?I'm pretty sure that,even if KT put Rukia along with the others,then showed her in the next half panel along with Ichigo on the other half,she'll still stand out no matter what.This is the reason why I couldn't agree with that kind of assumptions,but,everyone is free to believe in what they want to believe,so...I won't push this idea...

            Now.if Ichigo didn't have any trouble in thinking about his prideful moments of being a shinigami,then that means that it (his shinigami life/power) wasn't the thing that hurts him when talking about shinigamis/spirits.On the other hand,being so adamant not to think about Rukia even during that crucial moment (he needs to get his powers back),means that the thing that hurts him,is the fact that he cannot see Rukia anymore.This is the reason why he didn't want to talk about anything related to his shinigami life,which includes Rukia.This only means one thing,Ichigo does REALLY,REALLY,REALLY MISSED RUKIA,to the point that he didn't want to talk about anything that will remind him of her.

A/N :

             Ichigo sacrificed his power to be able to save everyone,he only wants everyone to be safe.During the past 17 months,everyone was in safe condition (the thing that he always wanted). All of his nakamas were capable of protecting themselves.No one needs his help.Even though he wanted to be the one who protects,he have to face the consequences of his decision (using FGT). Everything was all under control,even without his powers..except ONE thing...he couldn't see Rukia anymore.

             Ichigo only felt the pressure of not having his powers when Ishida was badly injured by an unknown enemy.That time,he wanted to be able to help his nakamas.If Ishida were injured that much,that means there is a strong enemy that was threatening the safety of those who are dear to him.

That's why,he was like this...

            Ichigo can endure the feeling of being powerless as long as his nakamas were safe,I agree.However,that doesn't mean that he is perfectly fine that he cannot see Rukia anymore,that's a different story.Being able to protect his nakamas is different from being able to see Rukia,so...don't make a mistake.Ichigo is lonely for being powerless because of not being able to protect his friends,and not being able to see Rukia.Therefore,given that his nakamas were safe during the 17 months of his powerlessness,the only other reason for him to be lonely,is not being able to see Rukia,until Ishida's attack.